Topic: Case specialties ok
June 17, 2019 / By Arin Question:
Okay so I'm on my second year of cadet training and he is a 2LT that graduated in May. We are both army. We met when we were both cadets at the same school and started dating when we were both cadets. Legally is this allowed? Could he lose his career over me being a cadet? Someone who actually knows the law on this issue please answer.
Trudy | 10 days ago
As I see it...
The purpose of rules against "fraternization" were designed to prevent undue influence and sexual harassment. I don't think there was any intent to thwart young romance. And I believe the policy was also intended to apply to relationships between enlisted and commissioned personnel.
I wasn't JAG, but I did have a little exposure to this issue... it was Navy, not Army, but I suspect the same rules apply.
Example... there was a kid stationed at the Pentagon, an E-5. He used to swim a lot. One day he met this girl (O-2) at the pool (swimsuits... not uniforms). Apparently they didn't discuss work. Anyway, they started dating.That's when they discovered the problem. However, they were both 4.0 sailors. They were both advancing rapidly. They never wasted hours on the pone while on duty. They weren't demonstrative in public... even out of uniform.
He'd go with her to "officers' parties." She'd introduce him as a "JO" which was his rating (Navy enlisted specialty), but it's also used for "Junior Officer." The next day in the Pentagon he'd run into officers he'd met the night before... in uniform. So others knew about the relationship.
Officers with whom he stood watch knew of their connection. He said they occasionally asked him what they should do if she tried to spring him early. He said he smiled and said something like, "Sir, she would never do that. But if she did, have her clear it with the Admiral first." I would venture to suspect that if the "watch" knew, so did the Admiral.
She came to the Pentagon once to have lunch with him. He introduced her to the LT (O-3) in charge of the office in which he worked. In "polite society," one introduces the male to the female. In the military, the junior is introduced to the senior. In this case the male was senior and the female junior. He said he stumbled over that a few seconds to the amusement of both.
They didn't go out of their way to keep their relationship a secret. Neither did they flaunt it. They just continued doing excellent work for the service.
Technically they were in violation of the non-fraternization policy... big time. Had the relationship gotten in the way of their jobs, or affected their work in any way, or if it had brought any negative publicity or scrutiny on the command or the Navy, you can bet they'd both have heard about it. I suspect it would have been career-ending for either or both.
I suppose that since they weren't in the same command helped matters.
But I suspect it's going to depend on the command. If it's gun-shy, if it's had some bad experiences with this issue, or if there's some "political" issue (somebody up the chain doesn't like you), they're going to be more strict. You're military FIRST.
I've known a couple of other similar circumstances that went ok. On the other hand, the military wouldn't have the policy if they didn't intend to enforce it. If any relationship goes sour those parties could point to you two and say, "Why are you picking on us? What about Sam and Suzie over there," you might get in trouble too.
I can't give you authoritative advice on your specific situation. My experience isn't even in your branch. Personal advice (probably worth what you're paying for it), conduct yourselves in the best traditions of the Army, don't bring any adverse attention to yourselves or to your command (and on up the chain), be adults rather than amorous teens, and when in doubt ask up your chain of command.
I've read some of the other answers. Apparently, as I suggested, it's illegal. One posted Army Regs. But apparently no authority's taken action yet... and it's been six months. Again, if either of you stay from the straight and narrow... in ANY area, you can be reasonably sure your fraternization will be added to the charges.
There are lots of rules on the books. An Admiral wrote that the Navy Regs were written for "left-handed swab handles who wouldn't know what to do if it wasn't written down for them somewhere." And the rules are there for a purpose. In my experience, the level of vigor with which they're enforced is really up to the particular chain of command. You know the Army better than I. Perhaps it's more strict than the Navy. It would appear that your relationship violates Army Regs. You already had some concerns, or you wouldn't have posted the question. You're both bright young people. You know what you're doing. Keep your noses clean. Stay below the RADAR. Don't bring any adverse attention to yourselves... in any way... or to the command, or to the Army. The folks here on YA are safe. We're not YOUR authority. It's your authority that will determine when and if they want to pursue the matter. Are they bound to do so? I still say that's going to be up to the command. Strictly by the book, I'd say you're already in trouble. But, if my read on the intent of the rules is correct, you could be ok... at present. Since you're still in the program, and he still has his commission, and it's been half a year, and since you haven't experienced any "bad vibes" from command on the subject, it appears that I might be correct that it's up to the command. Even if my experience was "only Navy." ;-)
Originally Answered: I want to be a police officer?
Getting police officer jobs is becoming more and more competitive. Do the best that you can in school. It is great that you plan on getting a college degree. Getting a college degree is one of the best things that you can do. Many police departments require or prefer applicants to have college. Having a degree could help you get hired by some departments. Some departments pay their officers more if they have a degree. Having a degree could also help you get promoted during your career. Choose a major that interests you, that is marketable, and that could be useful for police work. Of the majors you mentioned, I would choose accounting. Whatever major you choose, make the most of your time in college. Choose a school that is properly accredited, get the highest grade point average that you can, participate in a couple extracurricular activities, get a good internship, do some regular volunteer work, don't do anything illegal, and maintain a good reputation. Keep a good driving record, don't get bad credit, improve all of your communication skills as much as possible, and become as physically fit as you can. Consider local, state, and federal police officer jobs.
Exploring reaches out to New York City's young adults in every community to help build up relations between the community and New York City Police Department. Explorers are taught the importance of higher education, self discipline, and respect for authority while they actively participate in community service projects and other events. Call 718-834-8855 for more information. Best of luck!
Originally Answered: I want to be a police officer?
You do not need nor is it advisable to major in anything that comes close to so called police majors like criminal justice.
Your plans are fine. When you get to college be sure to take, as one of your humanities electives, something like intro philosophy or comparative religion to really sharpen your critical thinking skills.
I was a cop with the next largest department to NYPD. Our explorer program is a joke, so no answer on that subject.
It appears you have looked at some comments/answers before asking your question so you likely know how many, including me, feel about education and the experiences needed for future cops to turn into great cop education. Generalized wide ranging education and jobs or volunteer work that puts you into lots of public contact.
You don't say what branch he is in but if it is Army then he is violating rules laid out in AR 600-20. Permanent Party are not authorized to have relationships with members in training. Training Commands may have further guidance.
it became illegal the minute he commissioned. he MAY NOT date a cadet. period. end of subject.